Erin Dyer - Sales
Chris LaFay: It. Sam. It. It's. Good morning.
Erin Dyer: Morning.
Chris LaFay: Are surviving?
Erin Dyer: That is a really good question. I'm not quite clear on that yet. So we're gonna see. I'm feeling a little tired today. It's been a lot. It's been a lot. You have a very cool setup there. Much cooler looking than my office.
Chris LaFay: I. When I say I put a lot of time into it, what I mean by that is, for the longest time, I had just a black background because I am not a handy person at all. And I knew that I wanted guitars hung up nice. And I was like, I know that if I poke a hole in the wall, I'm not the one that will spackle it and repaint it. And so I. I thought for probably the better part of a year and a half or two years of what to do with all of this. And because I wasn't. I was afraid of commitment because I was like, once I do this, I can't move my office around. Like, I can't, like, put my desk on this wall and move it to.
Erin Dyer: That wall right in the center between the guitar and the lightning bolt over there.
Chris LaFay: Huh? Exactly. So when it all came to, like, to happen, like, it went from nothing to everything in about two weeks. Because that's just the way that my brain works. It's like, it plans and it plans and it plans and plans that I'm like, go sprint. If it's not done, I'm dissatisfied. And so, like, from my wife's standpoint, she was like, you just went ham on your office. I'm like, but I've been contemplating it and staring at myself in the little pip window for years, trying to figure it out. And so here we are today, and I get to stare into the face of the sun with lights now, because when you go professional, you have to also do professionally things as well too.
Erin Dyer: Oh, yeah, it looks really good. I gotta. I'll give you mad props because when I used to work for myself at home, I had these beautiful bookshelves behind me. And I would like very strategically put what books people could see. And I had a glorious ring light, like a real ring light that I use for photography, like, pointing out. So it's like blind you the whole time, but boy, do you look good. You gotta glow.
Chris LaFay: I. The softboxes that I have positioned there and there, they came with light bulbs. And I'm like, sweet, that's great. And I put. I put it in. I put the little softbox around it and I turn it on and dear mercy, it was like, it's not a professional grade light bulb. Don't get me wrong, it was a 40 thing I bought on Amazon. But dear mercy, that light was so bright, I'm like, there's no way, no way I can do this. And so I, I thought I could get away with just having like one right above like where my camera is. I was like, but now I'm staring right at the light.
Erin Dyer: Yeah.
Chris LaFay: And so I was like, well, what if I got like Philips hue light bulbs that I could dim? And what if I just got multiple of them?
Erin Dyer: Them.
Chris LaFay: So rather than one sun that I have to stare at, I was like, I can just have a couple of like soft moons of light.
Erin Dyer: Really? It's very even. It looks really good.
Chris LaFay: It, I'm, I'm, I'm very happy with it. And it stayed, it has stayed this way for the better part of about eight months or so. And that is a long time for me to be like content with something that I, I like, I like fiddling with stuff. Yeah. So there's a lot of things to fiddle with in here. And the fact that I haven't touched it makes me so pleased.
Erin Dyer: Needless to say, it looks, I just somehow like minimize this. I'm trying to fix it real quick. Yeah, it looks really good. And honestly, generally I think that Google video looks not great, but oh yeah, it's really, you got a great fill. And I love that because I feel that a lot of creative people have like severe adhd. I do. But you feel like the opposite because you're like, I planned it and then I did it. And I'd be like, we're doing it right now, let's do it right now.
Chris LaFay: I, I, I've learned a lot about myself for the last like years. So I have no earthly idea if I have ADHD or not. I feel like I do, but because I am, I, it's hard for me to concentrate on one thing. But if I get hyper focused, I will not set it down until it is done. But if I don't say what, that.
Erin Dyer: Is actually a qualifier of adhd.
Chris LaFay: That's, and that's what I, that's what I've read. And I don't, I don't, I don't like to like impose, not impose myself. But like my wife likes to do a lot of research on WebMD and self diagnose.
Erin Dyer: That's, There you go, there you go.
Chris LaFay: Like the self diagnosing. Cause I see it cause her stress and anxiety because I think she has A, B, C or D whatever it might be. And I'm like, I don't care.
Erin Dyer: Yeah.
Chris LaFay: This is the brain that I've lived in my entire life. And so everybody's got their weird stuff. I just had to figure out how to create systems and processes that work for my brain and all of its weird quirkiness. Whether it's ADHD or not, who cares? I can concentrate. And so how do I make myself concentrate more and so. And actually focus it? So here we are today.
Erin Dyer: No, I love it. I love it. And honestly, have you ever used Monday.com I?
Chris LaFay: We use. We have used all of them. We have used Trello. We've used Monday Asana notion. All of them.
Erin Dyer: Yeah.
Chris LaFay: Yes.
Erin Dyer: I found that Monday.com for me, like, especially as someone who balances a lot of different creative stuff, is the holy grail of survival. It's the only way. And if I. And if I, like, let my habits drop and I don't use it, I literally lose track of everything that I'm doing. That's just.
Chris LaFay: My project manager has kept us on Asana for the last, like, three years or so.
Erin Dyer: Yeah.
Chris LaFay: And I. What I've started doing, I. My. One of my advisors was like, we need to figure out how to get you to focus on stuff. I was like, that sounds great. This is definitely not in your scope of work for advice, but let's dive in. Do it. And he got me on Motion, which is that tool that basically puts all of your tasks into your calendar. So, like, when I hop off of this call, I have 30 minutes free. I go on my calendar and I see this is the thing I need to work on. Done. So I basically just live by my calendar and it knows how long tasks take and it also knows how much it can chunk them up. So, like, there's certain. Like, let's say I'm going to go and design, Like, I'm actually gonna be the lead designer for something. And I know I need to have, like, four hours dedicated. I can. When I create that task for myself, I can say that the minimum chunk is four hours.
Erin Dyer: Yeah.
Chris LaFay: And the deadline's in three weeks. And so it could then put that wherever makes the most sense to make sure that it gets done by that deadline. So I don't really. It's a little bit clunky. I'm not a big fan of, like, how you add task. It seems very. Not just a simple add a task button. There's a couple of things you have to go through. I'm probably missing something, but I've been using it for the last two weeks and I feel like I have accomplished more in the last two weeks than I have in the last six months. Not in aggregate necessarily, but I've had a lot of deliverable work to do of varying sizes and I feel like I've. I've hit my deadlines. They may have been at the. Some of them may have been right at the edge there, but I've hit them all.
Erin Dyer: That's awesome. And that is great. That's the space that I live in. So it trusts me, I totally. And I. I worked for myself for years and so I'm used to balancing client work like that. But also I've worked at agencies too, but in this space I kind of act as my own agency. I'm the marketing director for three different companies, but that also means I'm the entire creative team for three different companies. Yeah. Except for what we outsource and are able to get help on.
Chris LaFay: Yeah.
Erin Dyer: So I'm super excited to talk to you about that. Had some questions and I did not answer them yet. And I am sorry about that.
Chris LaFay: No, that's perfectly fine. So today I do have a hard stop at noon, so just putting it out of the very beginning. So I'm gonna just, I'm just gonna dive right in. So there was a lot of discussion in the RFP about HubSpot. Some of it sounded like it was in the weeds in HubSpot. Some of it sounded just like make sure the. The call to action forms are HubSpot embeds. Are they looking for somebody that has deep HubSpot knowledge of how to actually create those workflows and automations? Or is this just a. We have HubSpot handled. Embed the forms, embed the tracking pixels. Thank you.
Erin Dyer: So this is probably a dissonance between ChatGPT and I, as I'm putting this together. I'm not. I just don't know that anybody writes out entire documents anymore. They don't. I don't. And then you're not going to read the whole document either. You're probably going to put it into chat GPT and say like, hey, can you give me an analysis of whether.
Chris LaFay: It's such a weird. I just had that thought because my developer, one of my lead devs, who I, who I've known for 20 years, he. I have a sales call with somebody later today and he did some research last week and so he basically recorded his call, wrote down all of his notes and then sent me like a chat GPT like analysis of everything. He, he reviewed it at all. It all made perfect sense. But I was like, we live in a wild day and age right now because if you put good inputs in, you get good inputs out. I'm over, I'm over thinking. And he has good inputs because he has every, all of his stuff trained really well to know his workflow, his style, how long things, the stuff that he sucks at, the things that he's good at. Like, it's all great. And I, I got that document and the, my first thing was like, I need to put this in the chat GPT and shorten it. I'm like, he, he put this in chat. Like what are we, what are we doing?
Erin Dyer: Really good point. That's a really good point is like why are we not just existing in a, you know, jot list form if that's what we're doing anyways? Because I'm not going to read through anything at this point, to be honest with you. I need a summary because I just don't have the patience and neither does anyone else. Nobody has the patience for it, you know.
Chris LaFay: So HubSpot.
Erin Dyer: Yeah.
Chris LaFay: Is it intricate or is it embed our forms?
Erin Dyer: Okay, so I should have broken this down into three different segments. The HubSpot thing was kind of an afterthought. We are converting to HubSpot. So right now, I don't know how to describe this website to you. It is a Frankenstein mishmash.
Chris LaFay: When you say converting to house. Are you wanting your new website to be built in HubSpot?
Erin Dyer: No, no, no, no, no, no.
Chris LaFay: Okay, sorry, go ahead.
Erin Dyer: My entire organization is converting. We have Salesforce and ActiveCampaign right now and we are converting everybody over all three companies over to a shared HubSpot account. And so moving forward, once that's done, which could be anywhere from three to six months from now, we will be creating sales funnels and customer journeys that integrate with HubSpot. Unfortunately, at this time, everything is going through an active campaign interface. So anything that's going to be rebuilt will probably just have those same forms inactive campaign that also are going through, you know, maybe AdWords and the other whatever ties and threads we have built in there at this time.
Chris LaFay: Okay, got it. Okay. So for right now, in general, we can kind of ignore all the HubSpot stuff because for the new build we're just going to pull over all the activecampaign stuff we're going to pull.
Erin Dyer: Yeah, yeah. So that's going to be number one and then number two is going to be that SEO piece which I can expand on a little bit too.
Chris LaFay: Yeah. So that is. I'm going to go ahead. And that's exactly what I was going to jump into that. So the core question is there's a lot of. There's kind of the. The next two questions I have with SEO and then content pages, they kind of actually play together a little bit because a lot of the time that is spent is actually dealing with content, whether it's importing or whether it's writing new, etc. So just talk to me about content.
Erin Dyer: So I. One thing I think is really important to know is that I'm going to be deeply involved in this too. So it's not going to be like me being like, hey, go make these 20 pages. I think this is really important. The way that I got to that is we did an independent analysis from two different people on our SEO. What was happening? We were approached by a company that was going to charge a shit ton of money to do nothing. Basically, it was like, hey, we'll write eight blogs for you and it's going to cost like $9,000 at the end of the day. Just. And I was like, okay, well, Chad, GB can do. T can do that in about 30 seconds. So I think we're going to pass on that. But I had to. But we're educating people right now, right? Because things are evolving. My president, who was a cfo, doesn't understand the nuances of SEO. So we did these independent analysis. I talked to our current SEO person, I did some of my own research. I threw everything into Chat GPT, you know, as we do. And basically we are an ant competing with a gorilla. We are a small subset of composite decking competing against a $270 billion industry. Annual industry, right? Huge. So what we got back was our architecture is poor. We don't have any parent pages with pages that go underneath it. We just have a bunch of pages. So that's something that's broken. And we also just need more because we're competing in this space with so many keywords and so many pages and so much information that we're going to keep being buried until we can kind of compete more in the space that they're competing in. And we have some differentiators that work well with that as far as creating content. I mean, I hate to say it, but, like, I've been training like my chatgpt for three years on lumber rock, and it knows all of it, right? It is the expert on lumber rock stuff. As am. As am I. We're the only me and my pretend friend Chat GPT are the only people that understand Lumber Rock. So I can provide tons of stuff. I can. But what I can't do is build out the website.
Chris LaFay: Gotcha.
Erin Dyer: But way too laborious, way too much energy that I don't have the time to. To do. So I need someone to do that.
Chris LaFay: Okay. So one of the things that. So we, we kind of do things. We do things in a couple of different ways. One, so the, the static thing that we do all the time, no matter what, is we, we design and build out a block library. So typically about 15 to 16 different building blocks that you can then chuck on any single page that you want.
Erin Dyer: Okay.
Chris LaFay: And that's the core. So that everything stays on brand well structured. We build everything within WordPress's main page builder called. It used to be called Gutenberg, now it's called WordPress full site editing. It rolls off the tongue so nicely I still call it Gutenberg. And so there are all of the. Not, I won't say all of them, but the vast majority of them are fully editable. You can go and then edit and tweak everything at paragraph. Stuff like that, stuff that's uniquely designed is more of a form fill type of block where if you have different overlays that are happening on top of each other, that doesn't really work well with drag and drop interfaces. Those would be ones where you would drop a block and you would fill a form out and it would magically work the way that you expect it to. That's typically about 20% if not a little bit less than that. All that being said is my recommendation because content is the thing that it doesn't necessarily take the longest in terms of hours, it takes the longest in terms of getting it right in iteration. It takes not days, but weeks typically. So my recommendation when looking at something like this is if you're going to be intimately involved with it during the build process, but then also going forward, and you know the company very well, My recommendation is what, how, what do we. What does a launch look like with the minimum viable page count? Because that means we get launched sooner, tools get into your hands and then people that you work with hand sooner to where you can then go and start creating en masse faster rather than trying to go from, I'm making up numbers 20 to 30 pages. And that delta of those 10 pages are the things that are taking the longest time where you could just have had everything and just been chugging along forward. So that's Always. My initial thought process is what is the minimum required to launch? And then give you the tools to expand however you want to.
Erin Dyer: So we have the baseline website. We did that last year. So if you see it like, I like the branding, I like what we did with this. If you, you probably haven't had a chance to, but I could send you like from archive.org what the old website looked like. And it was just an absolute mishmash of crap. It was great. And this was basically just a facelift. So we kept all the, all the underlayment there, but we built top of it so that it looked nice, but it's created problems. We also did a kind of small time SEO update at that point. But what we really, really want is we want to take this new website and we want to make it clean. I want to get new imagery because to be honest with you, Leonardo is so much better than what I was using before. And I can make gorgeous deck images now that have the grain that we have. People are frankly surprised when I show them the pictures and they're like, that's not real. It's that good now. So I want to make new imagery. I want to go in and look at the written content and how it is being put onto the web and make sure that it's being optimized so that we are getting from an SEO perspective everything we need there and just kind of taking what we've already done, making it super duper clean, making it super duper easy for people to use, making sure that we're not losing people in the structure of it. Like they have to scroll too far or, you know, just so we have like the call to action high enough and improve it. So make this, say this is like a brochure that I did at home and it's like 75% good, but we just want a professional to polish it and make sure everything is set up in the way. It's always breaking. Everything's always breaking. And that's what makes them crazy. We can't track the leads that are coming in at all anywhere on website. I don't know why. And they're like, it'll cost you another $2,500 just to be able to do that. And I'm like, why? You guys have already built this. Like, my boss is ready to fire them because they have been working with the them forever. But everything is always breaking and it takes a long time to get fixed. They're not local. We don't have a good cadence on communication. My super frustrated with that.
Chris LaFay: Okay.
Erin Dyer: So.
Chris LaFay: Hearing that, this is what I'm. I'm kind of just kind of clicking through and scrolling through the site again.
Erin Dyer: Want to be beholden to a company. Not. Not that we wouldn't be, but, like, he feels like they kind of have us, like, you know.
Chris LaFay: Yeah.
Erin Dyer: Under their fist because we have to wait. And no matter what they say, we have to do it. Because if we do something, there's like a cachet in there that crashes the whole site. Like, it's just kind of a mess.
Chris LaFay: Do. Do you have the ability. Do you know how all the different building blocks work to where. If you create. If you want to create a new page using existing styles, that that would be easy to do for you? Yes. Okay, so I did.
Erin Dyer: Sorry.
Chris LaFay: No, no, you're good.
Erin Dyer: Go for it. You're good. I did that for the majority of that site, but it was just very laborious. It was elementor, and I was like, I would start to do stuff, but it wouldn't work exactly the way I want. And then it would kind of mess up the rest of the site because I was all. So we needed someone to do it. But, yes, I'm very good. Like, I build my own website all the time.
Chris LaFay: Got it. Okay. So what. What I'm taking away from this is. And I knew this already, but the. The general aesthetic of the site is already solid. Like, that's all fine and dandy. Like, we're like, there's a general happiness about the core design elements here.
Erin Dyer: Yeah.
Chris LaFay: Colors and branding colors and brand and stuff like that. So, like, I'm on. I'm on the Docs Waterfront page and you have kind of like these, like, dual headers of, like, thick text, bold text, but then the outline text as well. And it's kind of like a little eyebrow with the. The header right below it sort of thing. All of these things are solid and good, etc, etc.
Erin Dyer: Unless you need to be improved, which I'm totally open to.
Chris LaFay: So they're the way that I go about do. The way that I go about thinking about these, because I call them a little bit like lift and shifts to where we keep a lot of the same core building blocks as is design wise, but built within WordPress's main page builder that doesn't have a lot of bloat by default, and create a block library of all these various different things that you have at your disposal right now. And while going through each of those, thinking about what other options do you want to have at your disposal? So, like, for example, this is actually not the best page to do it on. Let me go, let me find one. I was on one a second ago. This is not the best example in the world, but I'm gonna go with it anyway. So. It's like this is the Coastal Collection page. So here you have kind of like a, a container that goes basically the full width, almost the full width, a background image, an image that kind of juts above and then really over here, this is just all basic text at this point. So thinking through something like this block, if we're to say this is one of the blocks inside the library, we want to make sure that like the background color could be changed. So if you uploaded a transparent PNG file to the background, let's say this mountain was a transparent or translucent white that would work across the board. Let's say that you might want to add buttons into here, something like that, maybe even like a two column layout. But basically how do we make this building block flexible for you and not locked in? Whereas there might be other ones, perhaps something more along these lines that might be a little bit more locked in. You have like a, a product pod where you're going to have an image that you upload, a header text that you type in, some WYSIWYG content that you put here, and then everything, the whole grid is just done for you automatically to where you don't have to think about it at all. Because in reality these products are probably going to be structured exactly the same, no matter what. From a design standpoint, there's no reason to have to rethink that over and over and over and over again. You also have a lot of these like double header sections here as well too, with the blown out text, with the actual header text there. So when I look at this, a lot of what I see are very simple blocks. Like at the end of the day you have something here that's containing, with this like wave in the background. It's just a section with the background image that's dimmed out and then you have the ability to drag and drop blocks inside of it. So the idea that I take to these is what are the number of actually like unique elements. So like this would be slightly unique because by default you can't just drop an image and have it, you know, be disjointed from the top of the section. A little bit of customization there.
Erin Dyer: But I will tell you this, I'm okay if with creating clean, consistent, high quality imagery. We were, we had like four different Design people just jump into this and do. I had someone who was doing stuff, and then I was doing it, and then someone else broke our website and then this other person. So it is like a mishmash of ideas. And what I would much rather have is something that can live in, you know, infamy with. That's just clean. That's just clean. That just works. So if this is unique and it's like, this doesn't make any sense, that's fine with me. Let's make it look good. And that's why I need someone who is a professional who can just do that, just make it look good, make it look clean. I can give you images that are stunning, that'll be just good enough that people. We don't have to do a lot of tricky imagery. You know what I mean?
Chris LaFay: So. So this is my thinking is, I think the way that we do this from a process standpoint is I'm gonna go through the site and I'm gonna kind of notate roughly 15 different blocks that I see that are good starting points that could be slightly expanded upon.
Erin Dyer: Okay.
Chris LaFay: Stuff that gives you options like. Like, that's really what. What people don't realize. No matter how big your website is, you don't really need more than like 15 to 18 different building blocks as long as each. Not each of them, but most of them have the ability to. To tweak, change background colors, change background texture, whatever that happens to be. Because then you have consistency at that point. And so what I'd like to do is go through and kind of inside of a Figma file, kind of drop in about 15 different screenshots of blocks. But I feel like would be a good starting point. That should get you 85 to 90% of the way there.
Erin Dyer: Okay.
Chris LaFay: We can then discuss from those, what types of changes and things we want to make to them before going into development. Because at the end of the day, we're not. We don't really. You. You have. You have a lot of the stuff here already. You don't really need to go through this humongous, like, design phase where, like, this is going to be everything brand new. You just need to know what the building blocks you're going to work with are. Because at that point, laying out pages is a piece of cake.
Erin Dyer: Right.
Chris LaFay: And so I would rather define, like, actually, this. This is a good. These are actually good examples of where we could, like, probably lay in some consistency. So how are we using this? You actually, I think you have four fonts. You have this Thin font here, which I believe is the same as this, just different weights and not uppercase. You have this script font, but then on the homepage you have this script font and then you also have the, the outline font as well.
Erin Dyer: So this is someone kind of just jumping in and like, oh, let's do this. And then I'm very open to fixing those.
Chris LaFay: So my thinking is the other piece to that, outside of the building blocks is what fonts are we using and how, and then how do we make that consistent so that you don't have to think about it. So for example, like I'm going to go back to my personal preference is something akin to this. Now this might not be fully accessible given how thin those, how light that color is. But what are we using for our sub header? Not our sub header, but our pre header text. What are we using for our main header text? And then when do we convert and use a scripty font inside of there for accents? I think if we define those three things, everything else then becomes simple at that point to where we know all of our headers one through sixes look like this. If we put text above looks like this. And if we want to add emphasis somewhere in here, the way we do that is by doing X, however, whatever that is, and it's automatically going to be this. Okay, so now you have consistency across all your fonts as well too.
Erin Dyer: Yeah, sorry.
Chris LaFay: So defining. So getting consistency with about 15 different building blocks. Getting consistency with how we're using fonts primarily in headings because really, honestly, your body content's all about the same anyway. Those two pieces launches us straight into development, which now we're just building out those blocks and those default heading styles. And then it's just a matter of how do we then you. How do we then take the pages that you have and build them like. Like Lego bricks? Basically, we're going to take blocks A, F, G and D and that's going to be a template that we use for each of the collections. The template that we use for the products will be blocks F, G, Q and Z. And that's our starting point for all of the different product pages that go underneath that. Obviously these aren't hard coded templates. These are building blocks at the end of the day, but it's a starting point. That's my thinking of how we kind of tackle this from a process standpoint. How does that feel?
Erin Dyer: Yeah, I love it. I love it because you're saying exactly what we need, which is right now I have no control to Go in and make a quick change. Like, we just. We launch new things. Like, if you look at the collections we have launched, Veranda and Genesis since this website went up, so we kind of had to just fill this in. But we needed someone to do that for us. Because every time I make a change, it breaks everything. And there are things that I would change here. Like, I don't know if I love this the best. Maybe we need something. Maybe we need that. The. At the bottom, if you keep going where it's the board and the colors, maybe it needs to be different. Maybe it needs to be cleaner. I do like having the specs on here, but I think there's a lot we could do. Like, maybe make these different pages. Like, you have it, you introduce it, and then the next page, you go through all these specs. Like, maybe we need more imagery. I really want to go into, like, what are the best practices to make it more successful when we do that?
Chris LaFay: That's what those are. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I just had an epiphany. I. On another page. I forget which one it was, actually. Was it this one?
Erin Dyer: You're like, what the hell is that?
Chris LaFay: Okay, so these. This right here. Yeah. I thought this was a button. Yeah, he was white text on white. Because the. This and this on glance look exactly the same. But now that I see this.
Erin Dyer: Yeah.
Chris LaFay: I'm like, oh, that makes more sense. I don't. My gut. This doesn't matter. You already kind of see the outline like this. This serves no purpose here. Like.
Erin Dyer: No, I get it. I agree.
Chris LaFay: So. Because you kind of get that from the image anyway, so another thing I'm thinking about, how familiar are you with the. I'm gonna say the more technical side of WordPress.
Erin Dyer: I mean, it kind of depends on what you mean by that. Because, like, I've been able to go in and edit WordPress for 15 years or however long it's been there, but I'm. I'm not coding anything myself.
Chris LaFay: Okay. So when I say the word custom post types and custom taxonomies, do you know what that is or have no idea what I'm talking about?
Erin Dyer: Custom post types, like posting blogs and stuff?
Chris LaFay: Y. Yes and no. So I'll. I'll back up a step. So actually, is this up right now? This is. So I'm going to show you the back end of an existing. Not an existing side, but a site.
Erin Dyer: That we're working on right now.
Chris LaFay: So by default, what most people will do is they will shove everything underneath. Pages have all these various different pages.
Erin Dyer: Yeah.
Chris LaFay: So everything in WordPress is a post. That's just what it is. Like that's just nomenclature of WordPress. Technically these pages are posts, but they have a, what is called a post type of page because it built out.
Erin Dyer: As like a, like a blog page.
Chris LaFay: Because it was a blog at the very beginning of time. Which is why in the back, the deepest parts of the back end, everything that is saved in WordPress is a post. But they have different flags attached to them as types. All that being said is I really like the idea. So this is an age, this is a video agency. They have case studies or projects that they have and if you were to go and click in on projects, they have a handful of their different projects here. And then they have them categorized by the type of service they are the type of product, they are the type of goal that they're going for. And now by default we're not going to use a lot of this dynamic categorization. At launch they didn't have the budget to blow out everything, but we went ahead and started categorizing everything now so that in the future they we could build out a lot of really cool stuff. So the reason I show you. And then at the end of the day all these things are, are just pages of content. Now ignore the formatting in the back end because their fonts are just humongous. But they have the ability to assign services, multiple of them, multiple products, multiple goals. They have the ability to type in the client so that it's separated there. The reason I say all of that and the reason I dive into all that low level detail is these products. You should just fill a form out on the back end of your site where you have all this stuff loaded in and building these things out. You literally just check boxes. So you would have a section on the back end of your site called boards that you would upload a featured image for, for, you know, this little, like this little thing here, you'd give it a name, a description, dimensions, and then you'd categorize it under whatever collection that it is so that this thing just automatically works for you. And then later, like we don't have to start with today, click for details where it goes into its own individual page. But now you have that base of operations there so that when we're, when you're ready to be like I'm out, I'm basically take the contents of this PDF and dump it onto a page. The development Time to switch that over from a click for details that goes to a PDF file, but to the actual page itself is a couple of hours. So there's things in here that could be a lot more automated at the beginning where there could be a good foundation for it, but then give you the ability to expand it later down the road too. Does that make sense? And I picked a very small piece to focus in on, but you can kind of take that mindset and start extrapolating it out a little bit too. Does that, Is that helpful? Does that make sense?
Erin Dyer: I love it. I love it. Because this is going to be evolving all the time. We're always going to be adding things, we're always going to be updating things. Right now we are a little bit handicapped. Right. And that's not. That's what we want to fix.
Chris LaFay: Does this do anything?
Erin Dyer: Yeah, if you put in a zip code. Okay. Show you. Yeah.
Chris LaFay: Okay.
Erin Dyer: Where you can buy it.
Chris LaFay: Gotcha. Okay. Do you have any idea how this is powered on the back end?
Erin Dyer: I don't know how that's powered on the back end end.
Chris LaFay: That would be very helpful to know.
Erin Dyer: I mean, I can. I can let you log into the website.
Chris LaFay: That'd be great. That'd be fantastic. What? Hold on a second. So, okay,.
Erin Dyer: I do know that there's a place in WordPress that we go in and we update the map.
Chris LaFay: Oh, wait, hold on. Wait, hold on one second. My. My headphones just got all messed up. Hold on one second. What just happened? Hold on. Where did I go? Where did I. Where did I go?
Erin Dyer: I can hear you.
Chris LaFay: There we go.
Erin Dyer: Great.
Chris LaFay: I had Spotify playing on a speaker back there and I, I clicked on my phone and Spotify went into my ears. You left me. Anyway,.
Erin Dyer: There's a place in there that you can update it where you put in the coordinates and everything. So it's very easy to find. I just don't know what it's called. Called off the top.
Chris LaFay: Got it. So, yeah, seeing the back in the website would be very helpful for that. What? Going back to content. Because the actual build, the, the design of this is going to be fairly minimal given we're going to take what's existing and talk through. What does elevation look like a little bit? And then getting into development, that's actually not going to be the, the, the strenuous part of the process. The strenuous part of the process is going to be content importing and getting it. All right. Because I know there's two types of people. There's people that just don't care. And then there's people that really, really do care and know a lot about stuff. In terms of content, you fall on the at least closer to the side of knowing a lot about content. You understand how this stuff works. We're actively working with a client who literally just does not care. Literally everything I've sent him is like perfect on the get go. No questions, no qa. So what, what does the minimal viable sitemap look like to launch this site?
Erin Dyer: The existing site.
Chris LaFay: The existing site. Okay. Okay. So I need to go through and run a sitemap analysis on this. Do you offhand, do you know roughly how many pages are on the site? I can find it on the back end of WordPress as well, but at least I just wanted to ask. Sorry, go ahead.
Erin Dyer: I feel like I have that information written somewhere. I was just reading. I was just like looking at the bottom because that's pretty much everything, but.
Chris LaFay: Okay. This is pretty much everything.
Erin Dyer: Yeah, I think so.
Chris LaFay: Okay. How much of this? So when I, when I looked through these, my, my default inclination, once we have our building block library, about 15 or so, is that collection. Each of the individual collections is going to be fairly, fairly similar from a template perspective. When I say the word template, what I mean by this is an arrangement of building blocks.
Erin Dyer: Got it. Yeah.
Chris LaFay: So collections will have a template. Technical information maybe or maybe not. But these are probably just going to be very basic. These aren't going to be super designed anyway. So all of text products would have a template, installation would have a template, and then explore for professionals. And our company are all going to kind of be walls of text. Like how to become a dealer, sales and marketing tools.
Erin Dyer: I'm oversimplifying, like if you actually click on, like, look at a smart investment. So these are all pretty built out with information, not really walls of text.
Chris LaFay: Got it. Okay.
Erin Dyer: But a template. Right. So we could do a template for these that would, we could follow.
Chris LaFay: Got it. Okay. Cleaning care. Okay. So much. So many different things. Okay. Like, so, like some of them are solid, some of them are this. Some of them have the dual layer, some of them have it separated out of all of these pages, let's call this. We have 5, 10, 20. We have roughly 40 pages of content here, not counting blogs that could just be automatically imported. Yeah. Out of these 40 pages, which, how many of them, the structure of the content can stay the same.
Erin Dyer: At least.
Chris LaFay: Like, you don't have to worry too much about, you're not going to worry too much about rewriting the content, you're going to basically kind of bring it over as is.
Erin Dyer: Yeah.
Chris LaFay: The idea that the blocks are slightly.
Erin Dyer: 80 To 90%, maybe adding in some more strategic keywords and stuff, which is what we're talking about, like optimizing it a little bit more. But the majority of these, for sure, the Explorer Lumber Rock is fine. Our company is fine. Installation is good. There is a lot of stuff on here. I would probably look at the collections pages again and maybe rework them because they're not quite as. They're not bad by any means. It's just. I think that we can just clean it up and do it a little bit different and easier and maybe focus on them a little bit more so there's a better understanding of the difference between them. Maybe make it so you have a collection page and then you have the specs on another adjoining page or. Or something. But just. I think we could do this a little bit better.
Chris LaFay: Okay, so collection pages are. So what I'm hearing is that your collection pages are the. The primary sales pages. These are the main things you're going to. And the products.
Erin Dyer: Those two.
Chris LaFay: Got it. Okay. So what I'm thinking that we do is we. Okay, again, thinking about going back to kind of the process standpoint. When we're designing out the building blocks and then going into development, we can then at that point really focus our time and attention on what does a good collections page template look like.
Erin Dyer: Yeah.
Chris LaFay: What is that core story going to be when we go into a content importing phase? My assumption is going to be we can bring over every other than the collections page. We can bring over it. Actually, it makes more sense from a time perspective to import all of the content outside of collections as is because I think you said it's about 80 to 85% there.
Erin Dyer: Yeah.
Chris LaFay: Because rather, because this is the normal, like what the process that we would go through with collections is going to be more conversational. And if we have that conversation on every single page, getting that detail down, modified, edited, tweaked, and then edited into the site, those are a lot of steps. Whereas if we bring everything else over as is, we just edit directly on the site.
Erin Dyer: Yeah, no, I think that's fine.
Chris LaFay: And that way we can basically do what I'm going to call it a round of QA on the pages that are fairly simple, where it's just like we brought it all over. If you want to make modifications and adjustments, feel free, we can do a round of that. You will then also have the ability to edit it. Yourself. So if you're like, there's a couple of text weeks, just log in and edit. Edit it. Rather than typing it into a system, you can just type it literally on the page. Whereas these are the ones that we're going to focus our time and attention on.
Erin Dyer: And they're not. They're not terrible. I'm not saying we have to redo them, but I think that, like you said, if we build out a template, that's going to be a lot easier, where we're not, like, really overthinking stuff. Before, we were kind of relying on design elements because we didn't have the ability to make as good at imagery. But now we can make really beautiful imagery. We can just lean on the imagery and more than the mountains and the water and this and that. Right. We can just. Yeah, I think that's totally fine.
Chris LaFay: Okay, that all makes sense.
Erin Dyer: I'll provide you with a lot too. Right. I will. I will give you images and I will give you text and so more. It's going to be you building it out strategically and making it beautiful.
Chris LaFay: Yeah. Okay. In terms of timeline and budget, I don't. So actually, let me ask a couple very small things. There are some stuff in here about Google Ads review and search review and stuff like that. Based on this conversation, we just finishing up, that doesn't seem that important. This is more about the website build, not as much about the advertising and stuff going forward.
Erin Dyer: So this whole. This whole thing started with my boss wanting to hire this lady to improve SEO. And I was like, this is not the best use of our money. And then they were like, well, I'm frustrated with the website. Let's just build it on a new platform and hire a different company that can help us with this. They want someone who can be supportive of us overall. And is that something that you do? Like, if I was like, hey, we. I don't know, like, we need a new brochure. Do you have a team that, like, works on that stuff, or are you much more focused on web development?
Chris LaFay: So we're 90% web now. I have formed my team as a collective of really smart people.
Erin Dyer: Yeah.
Chris LaFay: And so one person on my team, my lead developer, he. He has a very large background in Google AdWords and Facebook ads, meta ads, stuff like that as well, too. Do I offer ads? No. But if we were working with you guys on a continual basis, if you're like, I need somebody that's smart to go look at my ads really quick with me, I would gladly pull him in and Be like, go talk with her about this.
Erin Dyer: Okay.
Chris LaFay: And so can we do some of those things? Yes. Is it the best use of our time across the board? No. But in terms of kind of if it's a little one off and kind of like on a consultant basis of like, can you help me and check in on these types of things and give me like, give me in the right direction? We absolutely can. I also have a plethora of partners that I always, I pull into stuff as well too. So if we need one off consultation, I can bring them in kind of not as a not white labeled but gray labeled and basically say, hey, you need SEO help. I'm going to bring in my person from Studio Hawk and during this call you can talk to them about what we're doing and get some advice on it and things like that. But if you were going to say like, I want a legit SEO plan and I want to work on it and do it better all the time, I'm just going to have you work directly with them because there's no reason for me to be a middleman on that type of stuff. Okay.
Erin Dyer: No, that's fine. Right now we don't have anyone monitoring or managing our SEO. We do have someone that we're paying a monthly retainer for our adwords, but it's real hit or miss. I mean, we've used him for years. I'm not really happy with how things are going right now. And that's why we kind of just added it all in. Like, hey, if we're going to revamp this and we're going to make sure it's all working and we're going to make sure it's all smooth, why not look at all the elements. This, what I'm contract that what I would be contracting you for is the most important thing in this regard right now. Right. So getting this up and working, making it make manageable, making it usable, making it right, we always have spelling errors and stuff, that's fine. I do that all the time. But like, but it also is, we want someone who's going to be reliably focusing on this in a good way. Right. So it's fine that that's what you guys do. That's what I want. And then we can find partners or whatever people you like to work with together that can help in those other elements. That's fine.
Chris LaFay: Awesome. That sounds good. Last question is a pairing of questions is timeline and budget. Because everybody loves and hates talking about both of these things and I like to talk about them at the very beginning. I don't think you have. Oh, a timeline asap. Great. So this is probably going to be somewhere between a two and three month process.
Erin Dyer: Okay.
Chris LaFay: To rebuild the site. Does that timeline feel okay to you? Yeah. Yes. Fantastic. I don't see any issues with the two to three month timeline. That should be all perfectly fine in terms of budget for the project in and of itself. Give me a second to do some mental math computations here. So. With all the content pages going into this, with making sure that like all I'm going to spitball that there's going to be about 40 content pages. Of them, 35 are basically going to be brought over as is. Then with we'll bring them over into the site as is and then we'll do small content tweaks, not these humongous like five rounds of QA on them. Five of those pages we'll put more focus on with the homepage and then the collections page. There'll be more rounds within that designing out about 15 building blocks that have flexibility in them with also training on how to utilize all of them and also video recordings on how to then utilize them in the future as well too. With all of that stuff given to you in like written documentation format as well, this feels like it's going to be around 25 grand. Okay, how does that number feel to you?
Erin Dyer: Well, that's not really a me question, so I want. Yeah, that's much more of a Matt question. I would love to work with you. I think you totally get what I need. And so what I need though is a proposal that I can.
Chris LaFay: 100. 100%. I just like, I like talking about this stuff at the very beginning because I do not. Because if you knew that the budget was five grand, I wanted to be like that. You're not going to get what you need for $5,000. I don't care who you work with, you're going to be disappointed.
Erin Dyer: Wanted how we ended up in the position that we're in because we did not spend a lot of money. I gave someone 3, $500 to do some updates. They broke the website. We had to pay to get it fixed. Then we had to pay, I don't know, another 8,000 to do kind of the like, you know, judging that it's at right now, but it's all broken and it's not working well. And that's not what we want. We want. So that in mind with that not include, but eventually include implementing anything we need to from HubSpot that would be a separate.
Chris LaFay: Yeah. So we view. Basically the project is build the website launch. We have. I have zero requirements on working with us long term. That's how I built everything that I do. And so sorry, text messages are really annoying to a very distractible person. It's like my watch. And so what we would then do post launch is decide where do we want to go from there. And so typically speaking, retainers with us, we don't, we don't do like there's two different sides of work of website work long term. One is kind of the folks that you pay a few hundred bucks a month to, they handle your hosting, they handle your plugin updates, those kind of things. And they're there on a reactive basis. You call, they answer, they do 15 minute tasks. Tasks.
Erin Dyer: Yeah.
Chris LaFay: We sit on the. We meet with you on a monthly basis, sometimes twice or twice a month, and we talk with you about what your goals are and we start building new things onto the site.
Erin Dyer: Okay.
Chris LaFay: That's the side that we sit on in terms of working long term together. And so we typically start those off at 1500amonth.
Erin Dyer: Okay.
Chris LaFay: Now I have a partner that does the reactive little tiny detail stuff and make sure plugins are updated, things like that, that we could roll those in together for a starting point of two grand a month. And so that just gives you a baseline. And so if we start doing that from day one. Great. We could start with the build at 25k roughly. That's spitballing numbers here. And then immediately go into like a one quarter of working together. So that gives you a little bit of kind of flexibility of not needing to have everything ready to go right there. We can then work together for another three months and get all the loose ends tied up in a couple of the new features. Because when smart people work together, we're going to have ideas and we are not going to be able to do all the ideas that we come up with when we're working on a project. And so I see a lot of times people, we go ahead and do three months post launch as well, even at something smaller, like 1500amonth to just kind of collect some of the loose ends of the ideas that we have. So that's where we sit roughly. How does, does all that feel decent?
Erin Dyer: I mean, it's very interesting of this company because sometimes we invest a lot in things and sometimes we don't invest a lot in things. So that's just my honest answer with you.
Chris LaFay: 100. Yeah.
Erin Dyer: And it's. I know it's more than they're going to want to hear. But it's exactly what I would expected.
Chris LaFay: Got you. That all sounds good. So I know it's in an email. I don't have that email pulled up. You need this by Thursday, I think.
Erin Dyer: Yeah, I'm presenting it at 9:00am on Thursday.
Chris LaFay: Sorry, 9:00am on Thursday. Great.
Erin Dyer: I didn't realize that it was.
Chris LaFay: Huh. Well, no. Well the great thing is I have AI tools that take conversations and spit them out into proposals that are extraordinarily thorough that I have crafted over many, many, many, many days and weeks and months of working on. So generating this is not going to take me very long at all. All I will say the proposal will be fair. It'll have literally everything you need to know in it. Therefore it'll be a little bit lengthier. But I will also provide you a summary inside the email as well too. So I go a little bit overboard on detail purposely so that there is one thing that has kind of my goal is the answer to like 90 of the questions things. So that's my plan. Does that feel good?
Erin Dyer: Yeah, it's great. And I enjoy you. I think that it would be a lot of fun to work with you. You're very enthusiastic. And the other thing is we have a lot of opportunity here because we have two other divisions that need a website and our CMI website is terrible.
Chris LaFay: I, for the last couple of years I was building site. We had a bigger, we had a much bigger team which also means very highly paid employees that were doing very well. Like don't get me wrong, they were all doing great but it forced our minimum prices to like 50 to 60k. And my network doesn't bring in 50 to 60k website that much. It did for a brief moment in time, but it doesn't. And so I like working with my hand picked experts that I can then pull in when I need them and we build really cool stuff together and that allows me to drop my prices down to more normal levels but still get that expert feel. And so I get to dip my toe back into the deliverable stuff of what I enjoy doing which is kind of this creative direction piece of all the things. And I'll be a part of that process very heavy handed through the design and the initial development and then during the content piece my project manager will take over a little bit more from me at that point. But I, I enjoy it and I got out of the stuff that I enjoy doing. I don't really like doing sales. This is the. It's not. It's not fun. That's why I host golf events at topgolf, because I don't like doing sales. So if I get to hang out with people and sales come great, you're doing good.
Erin Dyer: You're doing good. I get it. I think that that's always an interesting nuance with creative people. Right. I like sales, actually. It's something I always really enjoyed.
Chris LaFay: I just. Numbers of things. Like, I know that people are very hesitant to talk about numbers. I'm very hesitant to talk about numbers. And so the way that I basically pushed all that to the side was like, we're talking about numbers on day one. I don't care what other people think. That gets my awkwardness out of the picture. And then we can focus on solving the problem.
Erin Dyer: I like solving the problem so important, because when you do stuff up front like that, it doesn't waste anybody's time. Right. If I was like, if you came and said, it's gonna be a hundred thousand dollars, I'm like, they're never gonna pay for that. But you said $25,000. And I was like, that's a number that I can definitely give them. And I think it's very reasonable. And I think the way that you've scaled your business is very smart. It's easier for me now because it's not my money.
Chris LaFay: And that's. So I had the. I had the opposite reaction when I. When I shifted my team around a little bit, was. I felt like every sale I made was going against this large deficit number that I had to overcome between my salary and other salaries. And I'm happy that I paid all them well, and they did a really good job. But every sale. When you sell something for $25,000, but your annual deficit is a half a million, you don't really feel like you make a lot of progress.
Erin Dyer: Yeah.
Chris LaFay: You're like, cool, I just sold it. I have another $475,000 to go.
Erin Dyer: Yeah.
Chris LaFay: Like, it's very demoralizing. And now it's like, we close the thing. We get to do the work, and it's great, and it's a lot more fun this way. And when you're having fun, by default, you do better work. And so I agree with you totally.
Erin Dyer: And I know I worked for myself for a really long time and couldn't ever scale up because I didn't charge as much as I should have been. And, you know, but we're the same. We're a manufacturing company, so we have super high overhead. Right. We have factories or four of them, different plants and places that we own, plus our home office. And I mean, it's a pretty good sized company. It's. It's a good company, though. It's a good company. And there's lots of needs, so that's a good thing.
Chris LaFay: Which is always great. If they're growing and there's lots of needs, then that means stability tends to happen. And so, yeah, that is a lovely thing. Needless. Yes.
Erin Dyer: Now, you had a hard stop 15 minutes ago.
Chris LaFay: I did, yeah. I was, yes. Thankfully, my next call doesn't start for another 15 minutes, so my thinking is if we went over a little bit, I would still have buffer to breathe. I'm basically bouncing around from calls all day today.
Erin Dyer: So you're totally fine and I really enjoyed meeting you and I'm super excited about this. Definitely. Please give me the proposal. I'm going to push for it on Thursday.
Chris LaFay: Sounds like a plan. I appreciate it. I hope you have a wonderful rest of the day. And if I see you tonight, fantastic. If not, you will see my email in your inbox at some point tomorrow.
Erin Dyer: All right. And. And if I can't come tonight, definitely invite me to the next one because I really want to come. I just. It's the flu thing. It's kind of.
Chris LaFay: Oh, I'll try. I am married to a germaphobe of the nth degree. I understand it all. I have never been a germaphobe in my life. Am I inching a little bit towards that? Yes. Now, was I licking doorknobs? No, it wasn't licking door. I wasn't that. And though not that unscared of germs. But I, I have inched a little bit more of like. Oh, okay. I see some validity of being a.
Erin Dyer: Germaphobe man, if you ever have kids. Listen, that's the. It's the Durham City man. Everywhere, all the time. I was more sick when I had little kids and it's weird. Weird. They don't get sick that much anymore. They're very robust. They're like both in puberty and. But when they do. What's this little. You got a little dog back there wandering around.
Chris LaFay: So she hasn't moved yet, but no, I do. I do have a dog. Her name.
Erin Dyer: Oh, I thought you had one behind you.
Chris LaFay: No. So she has been. She has a pillow that is very strategically placed right off camera, like it is barely making the cut of where she's at. But I have a sleepy head who is about 14 years old, give or take, and she sleeps. Actually, it depends. Sometimes she sleeps in my office when I work all day. Other times she goes and lays on our actual bed and sleeps there all day.
Erin Dyer: Yeah.
Chris LaFay: But I am not the favorite. I'm not the chosen. My wife is because she goes to work and gets home around two every day. And when she gets home, she's very excited. And so my dog thinks that my wife just leaves her and abandons her. And then when she comes home, it's like, you know, jubilation every day. So of course I'm the guy that's boring that does nothing with my dog all day long because I abandon her to my desk and I don't even, you know, barely play with her.
Erin Dyer: Yeah.
Chris LaFay: And so what kind of a dog? So she is a mix of a pit and a lab and that. I texted you a photo of her, by the way.
Erin Dyer: Oh,.
Chris LaFay: I am too. She's about half the size of both a pit and a lab. So she's about 40, 45 pounds, give or take. She definitely has a lot of pit mannerisms of like the nudging of things and stuff like that. But she has like the ears and the face of a lab.
Erin Dyer: This is so cute. Oh, look at her little. Yeah, she does have an ear. The face of a little lap. I have a big German shepherd. I've never had a dog before, like two years ago. And I have children, but this dog could be my favorite child. They love him so much.
Chris LaFay: Our dog is, are one of our favorite people. Like I. There's, there's been thaw because she's 14 years old, but she's doing great. Like, we play with her every day. She sprints. Like she's, I mean, she's a little bit slower getting up.
Erin Dyer: Yeah.
Chris LaFay: But like we take her on. Like we took her on a three mile walk the other day. Like, and she was. And she was fine with it. And we, we play monkey in the middle with her. So she likes back and forth and like, she is fine other than her hearing. Her hearing sucks now.
Erin Dyer: But like, I don't know if you can see. That's my German shepherd.
Chris LaFay: Oh, frick. I loved, I love German shepherds. We have a good friend of ours that has one and man, the dog. Those dogs are freaking bomb.
Erin Dyer: This is a great, like, this is not. This is a great picture of him. I love this. He looks very, like regal.
Chris LaFay: Yes. We were in the middle of a.
Erin Dyer: Five mile run and I'll tell you, like, that dog has been like the best trainer ever in the world. Like he makes me Work out all the time. I think I actually wore him out that day for, like, the first time ever. He was, like, just napping in the car after we were done. I was like, that's right, buddy.
Chris LaFay: It's a wonderful feeling when you can tire your dog out and you're like, I defeated you today.
Erin Dyer: Yeah.
Chris LaFay: You are now going to sleep for a long time. Yes. Oh, that's our. I was gonna try to find another photo of our dog, which I have a ton of them, but then I scrolled past one. We still have our Christmas tree up, and so there's that. Yeah.
Erin Dyer: I finally made my husband. We always go on a cruise at Christmas. We never put them up, and that's on purpose because I don't want to have to mess with it. We're not gonna be here. We might be here on Christmas morning, but we're always gone. And then, like, I think it was, like, March 1st. I'm like, dude, bring it upstairs. Bring it upstairs. Take it apart.
Chris LaFay: Okay, so you. You're almost as bad. We're almost as bad as we are.
Erin Dyer: We could just leave it up all year. Nobody would even. It's awful.
Chris LaFay: I told my. I told my wife that I just want to leave it up at this point. Like, no. Like, we have people come over. Nobody cares. They're like, oh, cool, It's a Christmas tree. There's like, a little bit of judgment immediately, but then they're like, it looks nice because it's a Christmas tree. Of course it looks nice. It has nice lights on it and fun little ornaments from our childhood.
Erin Dyer: Like, I just say, have fun with it at this point. Just leave that. Leave it up. Be the person. Be that person. I like it.
Chris LaFay: Yes, exactly. Okay, I'm gonna go. I do have to do a little bit of prep before this. Much appreciated. I will send over all this. I will send over this stuff to you at some point tomorrow once I get through my deluge of meetings, and then also host 25 people at golfing, so.
Erin Dyer: Oh, my God. All right, well, good luck. Super nice to talk to you. Super fun.
Chris LaFay: Likewise.
Erin Dyer: All right, I'll talk to you.
Chris LaFay: Have a good rest of the day. Take care.
Erin Dyer: Bye.